Microsoft Office 2003 problems
Hi all,
We are currently having some issues trying to deploy seperate installs of seperate Features within Office 2003 to the same machine.
We have used ORK.EXE to create our Custom Transforms and went with the default settings throughout.
We have a requirement within the business that some users may require Access 2003 on it's own, or Infopath 2003 on it's own, or both. So we have created 2 transforms, one for Access and one for Infopath. We have also created one for Outlook 2003 and one for the full Suite of applications.
However, for example, if I install Infopath 2003 first (doesn't matter which I install first), then install Access 2003, Access doesn't get installed. The install doesn't fail but oddly thinks that it has been successful. I have created a verbose logfile for both installs and the thing that's really baffling me is when I carry out the second install there is some logic somewhere telling the install to use the transform from the first install......in this case Infopath2003.mst.
The command line I am using is "setuppro.exe TRANSFORMS=Microsoft_Access_2003.mst /qb"
Please see the verbose file below.........(a section of it anyway).......
Does anyone know what's causing this or how to fix it?
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:658]: Command Line: TRANSFORMS=@Access2003.MST LAUNCHEDFROMSETUP=1 SETUPEXEPATH=Z:\Software Library\4.0 Testing\Empirum\Microsoft\Office\2003\XP\Microsoft\Office\2003\ SETUPEXENAME=SETUPPRO.EXE LOGVERBOSE=1 STANDALONEOSE=C:\MSOCache\All Users\90000409-6000-11D3-8CFE-0150048383C9\FILES\SETUP\OSE.EXE CDCACHE=2 DELETABLECACHE=1 LOCALCACHEDRIVE=C DWSETUPLOGFILE=C:\installAccess.log DWMSILOGFILE=C:\installAccess_Task(0001).txt CURRENTDIRECTORY=Z:\Software Library\4.0 Testing\Empirum\Microsoft\Office\2003\XP\Microsoft\Office\2003 CLIENTUILEVEL=2 CLIENTPROCESSID=2076
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:673]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Adding PackageCode property. Its value is '{6102E382-135B-4261-BA67-F6F09B6A6483}'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:673]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Adding TRANSFORMS property. Its value is '@Infopath2003.MST'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:673]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Adding TRANSFORMSSECURE property. Its value is '1'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:673]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Adding TRANSFORMSATSOURCE property. Its value is '1'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:673]: Product Code passed to Engine.Initialize: '{90110409-6000-11D3-8CFE-0150048383C9}'
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:673]: Product Code from property table before transforms: '{90110409-6000-11D3-8CFE-0150048383C9}'
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:673]: Product Code from property table after transforms: '{90110409-6000-11D3-8CFE-0150048383C9}'
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:673]: Product registered: entering maintenance mode
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:673]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Adding ProductState property. Its value is '5'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:673]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Adding ProductToBeRegistered property. Its value is '1'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:673]: Entering CMsiConfigurationManager::SetLastUsedSource.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:673]: Specifed source is already in a list.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:673]: User policy value 'SearchOrder' is 'nmu'
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:673]: Machine policy value 'DisableBrowse' is 0
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:673]: Machine policy value 'AllowLockdownBrowse' is 0
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:673]: Adding new sources is allowed.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:673]: Package name retrieved from configuration data: 'PRO11.MSI'
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:673]: Determined that existing product (either this product or the product being upgraded with a patch) is installed per-machine.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: Note: 1: 2262 2: AdminProperties 3: -2147287038
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Modifying ALLUSERS property. Its current value is '2'. Its new value: '1'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: Machine policy value 'DisableMsi' is 0
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: Machine policy value 'AlwaysInstallElevated' is 0
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: User policy value 'AlwaysInstallElevated' is 0
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: Product {90110409-6000-11D3-8CFE-0150048383C9} is admin assigned: LocalSystem owns the publish key.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: Product {90110409-6000-11D3-8CFE-0150048383C9} is managed.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: Running product '{90110409-6000-11D3-8CFE-0150048383C9}' with elevated privileges: Product is assigned.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Modifying TRANSFORMS property. Its current value is '@Infopath2003.MST'. Its new value: '@Access2003.MST'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Adding LAUNCHEDFROMSETUP property. Its value is '1'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Adding SETUPEXEPATH property. Its value is 'Z:\Software Library\4.0 Testing\Empirum\Microsoft\Office\2003\XP\Microsoft\Office\2003\'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Adding SETUPEXENAME property. Its value is 'SETUPPRO.EXE'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Adding LOGVERBOSE property. Its value is '1'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Adding STANDALONEOSE property. Its value is 'C:\MSOCache\All Users\90000409-6000-11D3-8CFE-0150048383C9\FILES\SETUP\OSE.EXE'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Modifying CDCACHE property. Its current value is '0'. Its new value: '2'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Adding DELETABLECACHE property. Its value is '1'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Modifying LOCALCACHEDRIVE property. Its current value is '?'. Its new value: 'C'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Adding DWSETUPLOGFILE property. Its value is 'C:\installAccess.log'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Adding DWMSILOGFILE property. Its value is 'C:\installAccess_Task(0001).txt'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Adding CURRENTDIRECTORY property. Its value is 'Z:\Software Library\4.0 Testing\Empirum\Microsoft\Office\2003\XP\Microsoft\Office\2003'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Adding CLIENTUILEVEL property. Its value is '2'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Adding CLIENTPROCESSID property. Its value is '2076'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Modifying TRANSFORMS property. Its current value is '@Access2003.MST'. Its new value: '@Infopath2003.MST'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: TRANSFORMS property is now: @Infopath2003.MST
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Adding PRODUCTLANGUAGE property. Its value is '1033'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Adding VersionDatabase property. Its value is '100'.
We are currently having some issues trying to deploy seperate installs of seperate Features within Office 2003 to the same machine.
We have used ORK.EXE to create our Custom Transforms and went with the default settings throughout.
We have a requirement within the business that some users may require Access 2003 on it's own, or Infopath 2003 on it's own, or both. So we have created 2 transforms, one for Access and one for Infopath. We have also created one for Outlook 2003 and one for the full Suite of applications.
However, for example, if I install Infopath 2003 first (doesn't matter which I install first), then install Access 2003, Access doesn't get installed. The install doesn't fail but oddly thinks that it has been successful. I have created a verbose logfile for both installs and the thing that's really baffling me is when I carry out the second install there is some logic somewhere telling the install to use the transform from the first install......in this case Infopath2003.mst.
The command line I am using is "setuppro.exe TRANSFORMS=Microsoft_Access_2003.mst /qb"
Please see the verbose file below.........(a section of it anyway).......
Does anyone know what's causing this or how to fix it?
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:658]: Command Line: TRANSFORMS=@Access2003.MST LAUNCHEDFROMSETUP=1 SETUPEXEPATH=Z:\Software Library\4.0 Testing\Empirum\Microsoft\Office\2003\XP\Microsoft\Office\2003\ SETUPEXENAME=SETUPPRO.EXE LOGVERBOSE=1 STANDALONEOSE=C:\MSOCache\All Users\90000409-6000-11D3-8CFE-0150048383C9\FILES\SETUP\OSE.EXE CDCACHE=2 DELETABLECACHE=1 LOCALCACHEDRIVE=C DWSETUPLOGFILE=C:\installAccess.log DWMSILOGFILE=C:\installAccess_Task(0001).txt CURRENTDIRECTORY=Z:\Software Library\4.0 Testing\Empirum\Microsoft\Office\2003\XP\Microsoft\Office\2003 CLIENTUILEVEL=2 CLIENTPROCESSID=2076
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:673]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Adding PackageCode property. Its value is '{6102E382-135B-4261-BA67-F6F09B6A6483}'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:673]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Adding TRANSFORMS property. Its value is '@Infopath2003.MST'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:673]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Adding TRANSFORMSSECURE property. Its value is '1'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:673]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Adding TRANSFORMSATSOURCE property. Its value is '1'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:673]: Product Code passed to Engine.Initialize: '{90110409-6000-11D3-8CFE-0150048383C9}'
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:673]: Product Code from property table before transforms: '{90110409-6000-11D3-8CFE-0150048383C9}'
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:673]: Product Code from property table after transforms: '{90110409-6000-11D3-8CFE-0150048383C9}'
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:673]: Product registered: entering maintenance mode
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:673]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Adding ProductState property. Its value is '5'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:673]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Adding ProductToBeRegistered property. Its value is '1'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:673]: Entering CMsiConfigurationManager::SetLastUsedSource.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:673]: Specifed source is already in a list.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:673]: User policy value 'SearchOrder' is 'nmu'
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:673]: Machine policy value 'DisableBrowse' is 0
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:673]: Machine policy value 'AllowLockdownBrowse' is 0
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:673]: Adding new sources is allowed.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:673]: Package name retrieved from configuration data: 'PRO11.MSI'
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:673]: Determined that existing product (either this product or the product being upgraded with a patch) is installed per-machine.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: Note: 1: 2262 2: AdminProperties 3: -2147287038
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Modifying ALLUSERS property. Its current value is '2'. Its new value: '1'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: Machine policy value 'DisableMsi' is 0
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: Machine policy value 'AlwaysInstallElevated' is 0
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: User policy value 'AlwaysInstallElevated' is 0
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: Product {90110409-6000-11D3-8CFE-0150048383C9} is admin assigned: LocalSystem owns the publish key.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: Product {90110409-6000-11D3-8CFE-0150048383C9} is managed.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: Running product '{90110409-6000-11D3-8CFE-0150048383C9}' with elevated privileges: Product is assigned.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Modifying TRANSFORMS property. Its current value is '@Infopath2003.MST'. Its new value: '@Access2003.MST'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Adding LAUNCHEDFROMSETUP property. Its value is '1'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Adding SETUPEXEPATH property. Its value is 'Z:\Software Library\4.0 Testing\Empirum\Microsoft\Office\2003\XP\Microsoft\Office\2003\'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Adding SETUPEXENAME property. Its value is 'SETUPPRO.EXE'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Adding LOGVERBOSE property. Its value is '1'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Adding STANDALONEOSE property. Its value is 'C:\MSOCache\All Users\90000409-6000-11D3-8CFE-0150048383C9\FILES\SETUP\OSE.EXE'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Modifying CDCACHE property. Its current value is '0'. Its new value: '2'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Adding DELETABLECACHE property. Its value is '1'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Modifying LOCALCACHEDRIVE property. Its current value is '?'. Its new value: 'C'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Adding DWSETUPLOGFILE property. Its value is 'C:\installAccess.log'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Adding DWMSILOGFILE property. Its value is 'C:\installAccess_Task(0001).txt'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Adding CURRENTDIRECTORY property. Its value is 'Z:\Software Library\4.0 Testing\Empirum\Microsoft\Office\2003\XP\Microsoft\Office\2003'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Adding CLIENTUILEVEL property. Its value is '2'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Adding CLIENTPROCESSID property. Its value is '2076'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Modifying TRANSFORMS property. Its current value is '@Access2003.MST'. Its new value: '@Infopath2003.MST'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: TRANSFORMS property is now: @Infopath2003.MST
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Adding PRODUCTLANGUAGE property. Its value is '1033'.
MSI (s) (94:34) [12:56:34:736]: PROPERTY CHANGE: Adding VersionDatabase property. Its value is '100'.
0 Comments
[ + ] Show comments
Answers (11)
Please log in to answer
Posted by:
jcarri06
14 years ago
Mark,
IIRC, once you install Office 2003 (along which whatever MST you specified) the way to modify it is through a CMW, not another MST installation. I would try creating a CMW to Add Acces/Infopath and see if that gets the job done. I'm not 100% sure on this...but pretty sure :).
G'luck,
J
IIRC, once you install Office 2003 (along which whatever MST you specified) the way to modify it is through a CMW, not another MST installation. I would try creating a CMW to Add Acces/Infopath and see if that gets the job done. I'm not 100% sure on this...but pretty sure :).
G'luck,
J
Posted by:
pjgeutjens
14 years ago
After some searching I found the following on the microsoft site:
You control which Office applications and features are available to users by applying a transform (MST file) when you assign or publish the Office package (MSI file). Note that you can apply only one transform to a given installation of the Office 2003 package.
Transforms are applied when Office is assigned or published. You cannot reapply a transform after Office is installed. If you need to modify a managed Office installation, you must remove and then reinstall Office with a new transform.
(source: http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/ork2003/HA011402011033.aspx)
I think that , unfortunately, this is relevant to your problem, since in essence you're triggering a repair on an already existing product.
You control which Office applications and features are available to users by applying a transform (MST file) when you assign or publish the Office package (MSI file). Note that you can apply only one transform to a given installation of the Office 2003 package.
Transforms are applied when Office is assigned or published. You cannot reapply a transform after Office is installed. If you need to modify a managed Office installation, you must remove and then reinstall Office with a new transform.
(source: http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/ork2003/HA011402011033.aspx)
I think that , unfortunately, this is relevant to your problem, since in essence you're triggering a repair on an already existing product.
Posted by:
michaelnowell
14 years ago
Mark, If you have InfoPath installed and then wish to install Access, the you can use the ADDLOCAL property on the command line.
E.g. msiexec.exe /i pro11.msi ADDLOCAL=AccessFiles
You can add as many of the features to this property to install them if you wish to. E.g. ADDLOCAL=AccessFiles;OUTLOOKFiles
E.g. msiexec.exe /i pro11.msi ADDLOCAL=AccessFiles
You can add as many of the features to this property to install them if you wish to. E.g. ADDLOCAL=AccessFiles;OUTLOOKFiles
Posted by:
mark_holland21
14 years ago
Hi all,
An update..... I am now in a position where I can install Office 2003 onto a machine using a Custom Transform created using the Custom Installation Wizard. I have set it to install all of the components excluding Outlook 2003 which is installed through the standard msi.
I have also been able to create installs for InfoPath, Excel and Access using the Custom Maintenance Wizard.
I have not been able to figure out a way of installing each of these on their own without installing the base msi with an mst.
Unfortunately we only have a licence key for the PRO11.msi which means I need to install this msi to start with and then apply CMW files on top depending on which components of Office are required.
Does anyone know another way to do this? I don't like the method I have discovered and would love to be told that there is a way of doing it.
Currently if a user wants Infopath alone, I have to install Office2003 and then deploy the cmw file down to remove the other components and leave just Infopath behind. It seems like a longwinded way of installing Infopath.....
Any ideas?
An update..... I am now in a position where I can install Office 2003 onto a machine using a Custom Transform created using the Custom Installation Wizard. I have set it to install all of the components excluding Outlook 2003 which is installed through the standard msi.
I have also been able to create installs for InfoPath, Excel and Access using the Custom Maintenance Wizard.
I have not been able to figure out a way of installing each of these on their own without installing the base msi with an mst.
Unfortunately we only have a licence key for the PRO11.msi which means I need to install this msi to start with and then apply CMW files on top depending on which components of Office are required.
Does anyone know another way to do this? I don't like the method I have discovered and would love to be told that there is a way of doing it.
Currently if a user wants Infopath alone, I have to install Office2003 and then deploy the cmw file down to remove the other components and leave just Infopath behind. It seems like a longwinded way of installing Infopath.....
Any ideas?
Posted by:
DeployTech
14 years ago
Install everything and then restrict the shortcuts to Access and Infopath with Group Policy. Tie it to a security group, and that should do the trick nicely.
I have done that in a number of places, and it works really well.
I have done that in a number of places, and it works really well.
Posted by:
mark_holland21
14 years ago
Hi DeployTech,
Thanks for your reply,
However, I'm not really up to scratch with AD.
From my experience what I understand from what you have said is to restrict what users see on their shortcut menu by Security Groups. So if I was to create a few security groups within AD, i.e G_App_Microsoft_Word_2003 etc... and then add certain users to this group. Will this make the other shortcuts invisible, if the user is not in the security group for them or will it just make them inaccessible?
I am currently trying to dig out individual licenses for each product so hopefully I won't have to go down this route.
Rgds,
Mark
Thanks for your reply,
However, I'm not really up to scratch with AD.
From my experience what I understand from what you have said is to restrict what users see on their shortcut menu by Security Groups. So if I was to create a few security groups within AD, i.e G_App_Microsoft_Word_2003 etc... and then add certain users to this group. Will this make the other shortcuts invisible, if the user is not in the security group for them or will it just make them inaccessible?
I am currently trying to dig out individual licenses for each product so hopefully I won't have to go down this route.
Rgds,
Mark
Posted by:
elgwhoppo
14 years ago
ORIGINAL: mark_holland21
Hi all,
An update..... I am now in a position where I can install Office 2003 onto a machine using a Custom Transform created using the Custom Installation Wizard. I have set it to install all of the components excluding Outlook 2003 which is installed through the standard msi.
I have also been able to create installs for InfoPath, Excel and Access using the Custom Maintenance Wizard.
I have not been able to figure out a way of installing each of these on their own without installing the base msi with an mst.
Unfortunately we only have a licence key for the PRO11.msi which means I need to install this msi to start with and then apply CMW files on top depending on which components of Office are required.
Does anyone know another way to do this? I don't like the method I have discovered and would love to be told that there is a way of doing it.
Currently if a user wants Infopath alone, I have to install Office2003 and then deploy the cmw file down to remove the other components and leave just Infopath behind. It seems like a longwinded way of installing Infopath.....
Any ideas?
OK, after closely reading your posts, I still have no idea what your transforms are doing. Let me try to sum up what you should try doing.
Make a single transform for your default installation. From what I read, let's say everything except outlook is included in that transform. Let's call that default.mst. This should be used for all instances of the installation, do not use multiple transforms, especially if you are going to be adding and removing features all the time.
Now, use the command line properties REMOVE and ADDLOCAL (which always overrides MST settings) to install the different required features.
For example,
Default, Minus Access, Minus Excel
msiexec.exe /i PRO11.msi TRANSFORMS=default.mst REMOVE=ACCESSFiles,EXCELFiles /qb
Use the feature names in the command line to customize what you want removed and/or added and use a single MST for your default configurations.
Let me know if this makes sense.
Posted by:
elgwhoppo
14 years ago
ORIGINAL: DeployTech
Install everything and then restrict the shortcuts to Access and Infopath with Group Policy. Tie it to a security group, and that should do the trick nicely.
I have done that in a number of places, and it works really well.
Restricting the shortcuts? What prevents users from running the apps by drilling into program files?
Posted by:
DeployTech
14 years ago
Use Group policy, same as you block movie maker or another app. Sounds too simple, I know, but it works.
Blocking the .exe to a group of users will prevent it from launching.
Blocking the .exe to a group of users will prevent it from launching.
Posted by:
elgwhoppo
14 years ago
ORIGINAL: DeployTech
Use Group policy, same as you block movie maker or another app. Sounds too simple, I know, but it works.
Blocking the .exe to a group of users will prevent it from launching.
It's so simple it's scary. I like it. I originally thought you meant restricting permissions to the shortcuts in the All Users folder by populating local security groups through GPO and applying permissions, not sure why my mind went there. My bad.
It would play into my preference that there should be a single installation of Office for all users at a company. Either you have Office, or you have no Office. Then again, what the business wants, the business gets.
At my place of employment, we have a division that gets Office Standard, and a division that gets only viewers, and a division that gets Office Pro. It's a real hoot.
Posted by:
DeployTech
14 years ago
Just make sure it fits your MS Licensing model!
It's amazing how simple some of this stuff is when you step back for a minute, I've been in the same boat before too.
It's amazing how simple some of this stuff is when you step back for a minute, I've been in the same boat before too.
Rating comments in this legacy AppDeploy message board thread won't reorder them,so that the conversation will remain readable.