Hi,

i need some help regarding applications that are unfit for Virtualization.i want to know which files,regestries or services are responsible to make the application unfit for Virtualization in the following cases.

(1) Applications that are closely integrated to Operating System. For ex. Internet Explorer

(2) Applications that make connections with external devices. For ex. ActiveSync or PCsuite.

(3) Applications that perform boot time activities. For ex. Exclusive access to system files by an Antivirus

(4) Applications with background services running for other applications on the host system.

(5) Applications that install Operating System services.

Please come up with any kind of help?
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ORIGINAL: mukul_rana
Hi,

i need some help regarding applications that are unfit for Virtualization.i want to know which files,regestries or services are responsible to make the application unfit for Virtualization in the following cases.

(1) Applications that are closely integrated to Operating System. For ex. Internet Explorer

IE can be done but it is a fine line here. MDAC and and .Net (full support in Softgrid 4.1SP1) can be sequenced. Most OS patches cannot.

(2) Applications that make connections with external devices. For ex. ActiveSync or PCsuite.

You just make hybrid applications. Install the driver to the OS and virtualize the rest.

(3) Applications that perform boot time activities. For ex. Exclusive access to system files by an Antivirus

Definatelty a bad candidate.

(4) Applications with background services running for other applications on the host system.

If you are talking native Windows services then it should be fine. If you need to share a service between a virtual and non-virtual application the non-virtual application should install the service.

(5) Applications that install Operating System services.

You can try to sequence the application with the service and see what happens. Personally services is still a bit of a hit and miss with Softgrid.

Please come up with any kind of help?
Answered 05/18/2007 by: kkaminsk
Ninth Degree Black Belt

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Hey,

How can we differentiate between a system service and a harmless application services by looking to the MSI tables.Is there any specific column value that can hint us that the service can create problems in virtualization.

Also there are lot of driver file (.vxd,.sys,.drv,.pnf,.inf,.cat) but not all of them are harmless for virtualization ie they do not install device drivers or make external device connections.How can we make out which driver files install device drivers or make external device connections and are hence not recommended for virtualization by looking at the MSI tables.
Answered 06/07/2007 by: little_mermaid
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It looks like Internet Explorer can be thinstalled:
http://www.dabcc.com/article.aspx?id=4693
Answered 06/07/2007 by: jerrymarks
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If it is in the MSI service tables then it should be a regular service. I don't think the MSI tables can install device drivers because there is a little more to the install than what is required for a service installation. Typically device drivers use DIFx or a Custom Action to install. Some device drivers can be installed with a setup captured MSI but those are completely hit and miss. Every device driver should have an .inf (sometimes a .cat but not required) file to install it so I would probably recommend looking for that file as an indicator that there is a device driver that is being installed. If you have an .inf file it is trying to install something at the kernel level which suggests that it cannot be virtualized because SoftGrid will pull that binary up to the user level.
Answered 06/07/2007 by: kkaminsk
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You can do it with SG and SVS but you have to use this solution.

http://tredosoft.com/IE7_standalone
http://tredosoft.com/Multiple_IE


Which is a hack for a physical install. But is ThinStall really using a MS installer or are they using this hack too?
Answered 06/07/2007 by: kkaminsk
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There is a flash video link from dabcc, it looks like Thinstall can run multiple copies of IE straight out of the box with no hacks.
Answered 06/07/2007 by: jerrymarks
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The video looks like it and if it can do that then that is awesome but I am always a skeptic so I am looking for someone who personally has done it. I have another consultant looking at this and I plan to look at this in the lab when I get some time. (seems rare these days)
Answered 06/08/2007 by: kkaminsk
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Hi,

i really need to know how to differentiate a boot time services(Etrust antivirus) and a service such as Office Source Engine(Office 2003) by reading an MSI.Both the services have a Service type of 16 in the Service Install table.Is there some other table or column that is different for these two applications?
Answered 06/13/2007 by: little_mermaid
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I did some research but I have my doubts that you will simply be able to use a script to scan the service table and get that sort of answer. I thought that boot time service can't be installed via that table but you suggest that you can. And even if you scan that table you would still have to scan for custom actions such as DIFx but not everyone uses the MSM and some people opt for DPInst. I know my answer is not very complete but I don't think you will easily be able to scan your MSI repository and find these problem applications because there are so many ways to install drivers. Maybe you have a big enough implementation that making such a script is worth while but I can't see this being done without significant effort.
Answered 06/15/2007 by: kkaminsk
Ninth Degree Black Belt

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I wanted to run a link someone from Thinstall gave me. It required a version of Flash my office computer didn't support. I told the guy (the president I believe) at Thinstall and in 10 minutes he emailed me a Thinstall copy of IE WITH Flash installed pointing to the link in question.

It was quite amazing. I've used Thinstall for a while now. It is easy to use and works great.

Making a Thinstall version of an app in as easy as installing it on your machine. Because that's all that's invovled. It's simple.
Answered 07/04/2007 by: Kev117
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SoftGrid sequencing is supposed to be dead easy but it isn't once you find a problem app. I am generally pleased with ThinStall virtualization but we have found some apps that don't virtualize all that well with it but I think that is to be expected with any application packaging technology.
Answered 07/05/2007 by: kkaminsk
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This may help with value matches....

Win32_Service Class
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa384901(VS.85).aspx
Answered 04/11/2008 by: rahvintzu
Orange Senior Belt

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I would agree (fwiw). Adobe PhotoShop is difficult to sequence in either SG or Thinstall due to DLL rebasing. Quite a few oddball, one-off apps out in the wild still use 1990's technology to install and maintain their state, those can be tricky also.
Answered 06/24/2008 by: ds0934
Orange Senior Belt

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