Software Deployment

Hi Jim:

I believe you were right this poll has opened can of worms. But I believe Jim you have written in your post that if you like any post you gonna vote for it did you vote for this one lol, just kiddin.

God Bless!

Now this is going to open a can of worms :)

Nice poll wiseapp.

How about MaSaI Installer, I think it beats both hands down for easy of use and creating consistently good packages.

How about MaSaI Installer, I think it beats both hands down for easy of use and creating consistently good packages.

While MaSai editor is pretty good and considerably cheaper I wouln't say it beats either Wise or InstallShield hands down..! As far as functionality is concerned you can't even compare them.

lol@Can of worms, MSIMaker that was my aim [:D][;)], I think almost 88% of worms have polled in for wise,lol. Anyways MaSaI might be having some limitations since I haven't used it so no comments. Anyways thanks a lot all of you for participating.

Alright so 93% of the population likes WISE for repackaging nice to know that, what is your opinion Jim(MSIMaker)? and thanks for appreciating this poll Jim. I did'nt know that I am going to get such a good response for my poll. Thanks again to appdeploy and to all the members.

God Bless you all!

What I would like to see is a "and why?" if we are going to say which we prefer I'd like to see the rationale behind it.

I don't think one or other is better personally, I think a good packager can use either to create a professional robust repackaging environment.

I agree with plangton.

I have been using AdminStudio 6.0 for the last 2 months after using WPS for a few years.

Both are actually pretty good in my book.

It would be good to know what things people prefer to do in one app or the other..

Hi Plangton:

I definitely agree with your opinion , however it's just an ease to use some people like WISE since the interface to them seems to be easy. However there are certain other aspects such as capturing methods etc. which a packager might prefer before purchasing these products. Anyhow at the end of the day its just a matter of choice I think. But thanks a lot for posting your opinion.

Hi WiseApp,

Thats just familiarity (which is meant to breed contempt, but apparently not). Since I started MSI packaging on Installshield I actually find its interface more intuitive but I dont think that makes it a better product, since when I used Wise for a few months I got just as used to its interface. But maybe thats just me.

I would say Wisescript is a plus for Wise!

Well I'm sure I have typed my reasons before but here goes anyway.

Wise makes Windows Installer msi's
Installshield makes Installshield msi's

Now the distinction is this. Wise uses zero footprint to install their msi's whereas Installshield scripting installs a script engine in order to complete their installs.

If you break the script engine on the local machine you can end up with a machine full of orphaned msi installations.

As far as functionality goes I think its a pretty even split. The one aspect that may attract ppl is the fact that Installshield imports lots of vendor msi's quite easily and it seems alot of vendors use it to package their installs.

I like and use Wise because I'm used to it.....after 5 years I should hope so. Wise has its own quirks which annoy me but I'm sure Installshield users have a similar story.

Hi MSIMaker,

I'm sure I've said this before, but your post gives the impression you have to install the installshield scripting engine when creating packages with Installshield Admin Studio which you do not. So if you are what I would consider a competent packager, you wouldn't use it, therefore Installshield can also create what you call "zero footprint" MSI's (though Wise and Installshield add quite a lot of their own tables to an MSI, I think ORCA is the closest to creating zero footprint MSI's but thats nitpicking).

Jim,

To be fair, your comparison here is really more InstallScript vs. WiseScript and in this respect you are completely correct. However neither is required (or injected by default) in order to create a MSI package. In fact, unless you have proficiency with either scripting language that steers you in that direction- there is no real reason not to simply use VBScript. In a great number of packaging scenarios, there is no need to go outside the inherent capabilities of Windows Installer.

So just to clarify, unless you specify you wish to use it (something a developer that likes the language might do) there is no need to ever make this deliberate use of InstallShield Script with AdminStudio.

Bob Kelly
AppDeploy.com

Hi plangton,

I realise that you don't "have" to use the installshield script engine but it seems to me that this is "exactly" what most ppl do once they start using InstallShield.

I would guess that 90% of IS installs from vendors use the ISS engine and it installs a footprint on the workstation. Don't you agree? Maybe the packager for the vendor was not competent and this is what makes our jobs harder.

That is my gripe really.....I have seen a workstation with a broken Demoshield install that basically killed the box...ok ok it was my home pc and it pee'd me off no end. I couldnt install apps or remove them, so format C: /s and start over.

So I'm biased I guess and while it may seem pedantic, I actually install EVERYTHING into a Virtual machine first at home before I will go thru that again. I have even repackaged games to keep ISS stuff off my box. Yes I'm a nerd :)

I don't see why we have this perfectly good, clean and tidy system called Windows Installer and have to tweak it around to install an ISS footprint that might cause grieve down the line....thats all I'm not happy about.

And I agree Orca is the only one to be truely native.....I'm told that Microsoft use Orca to package their apps.....Office etc.

But the best capturing software is by far Radia.....hands down winner overall in my testing. It captured SAS first go, capture + compile and then install perfect. Hands down winner.

Hi Bob,

You got in just before me lol.

I have to wonder sometimes about this poll question......isn't it awesome???

Because the Wise users "know" Wise so well and its pitfalls/advantages yet we still back it and the AdminStudio guys know their pitfalls/advantages and still back it to the hilt.

My thinking is that both work extremely well and it most likely comes down to "first hit" preference. my first hit was Wise. So I'm used to it and work around its shortcomings and use its advantages.

If I was an Installshield "first hit" person I most likely would be in that camp and defending it.

What is most interesting is that regardless of which packaging software you use....you will hit stumbling blocks and questions you need to get answered to get the job done and they repeat themselves over and over.

Most are solved regardless of which app you use...its about method and thinking outside the interface in most cases. The packaging software is the means to the end.....but without the thinking...its the same regardless of the software.

Hi Bob,Jim and Plangton:

As I said earlier and agreed with Plangton, its just a matter of choice at the end of the day what we use. However I would like to say that I like Wise since I am used to it and moreover I believe it has a easy interface then Installshield. Further, as said by Jim Installshield uses Idriver or installshield engine for complex actions and is more prefered for vendor provided MSI's/combining MSI's. And as said by Bob if you know vbscript then everything seems to be good.[:D]

Yeah its hard question to answer really. Using VBScript has its pitfalls as well.

Unless you building error checking and controls into your vbscript then your msi isn't really an msi because it doesnt have the logic to fix itself does it?

btw just in case you were wondering Bob.

I havent been around alot lately because after 3 years the bank has finally decided to tackle the last and nastiest portion of the business and move them into the 21st century. Guess who got the packaging/integraton job? Yours truely.

This work have been put off because it is just plain ugly.....even IBM the oursourced company don't wanna touch it.

But this bunny is going to roll them in pretty soon and then take a nice long break. I get my new car in 4 weeks and then take 2 months paid holiday some time after that. It's been a "days of our lives" from start to finish but its going to end soon and I'll be on here more often with lots more input after my break :)

Rated 5 Stars Bhupesh :)

OMG! your higher rated than me :(

Thanks Jim for 5 Stars and sorry for getting a high rating :(, I think need to contact Bob for a App0-Deploy T-shirt though for high ratings,lol. Bob ru listening?lol, just kiddin

Hahahaa I knew you were fishing!!!

Give him a T-Shirt Bob.....I think he deserves one.

Speaking of T-shirts. I wore my Appdeploy.com T-shirt to Microsoft Tech-Ed 2005 last week here in Australia and had a number of people come up to me to ask about it and told me they often looked at the site and got packaging tips from the knowledgebase. It was a bit of a buzz for me because it was a 1 of a kind :)

Three cheers for Appdeploy than, Hip Hip Hooray!, Jim this happened with you I believe the same will happen with me when I'll wear one in my company (HCL Technologies India) since MSI/Packaging these words are aliens to Indian Tech people but however the fever is rising for MSI here. Anyways I would like to thank you and Bob for coming with such a platform where people can exchange their problems/ideas/suggestions not related to packaging but crucial system topics such as imaging,systems management and deployment as well.

Thanks again to Appdeploy and definitely to you Jim (you know for what[;)])

Bob Ill be waiting for the T-shirt tho, I hope you send it to India[:D]

WD to you Bhupesh I hope Bob sends you a T-Shirt :)

T-Shirts are acually something I'll be making available on the site soon. What Jim got was a embroided polo shirt- much easier to get away with wearing at "work". I'm out of them at the moment, but will be getting more and have every intention of ensuring the top players here at AppDeploy are taken care of!

Thanks guys!
Bob

What Jim got was a embroided polo shirt- much easier to get away with wearing at "work".

That's what I was looking for Bob, thanks will wait for the T-shirt though.

Can this Poll be re-opened?
It would be good to gague peoples opinions now that a few years have passed..?

Hey Mighty:

That was a great idea... I was supposed to do it but couldn't. Well nevertheless the poll is now open again with some other options....

Thanks,

Bhupesh Mansukhani

I can't believe it's been two years since a similar thread was up on appdeploy, mind you, this was very interesting to say the least since not only did anyone who posted pick one (installshield or wps), but also gave their "why" explanations as well. Installshield vs WPS

MSIMaker, you don't happen to work at Westpac do you? [:)]