Virtualization

Packaging: Yes, this is how Softgrid works. Be aware that sequencing applications for Softgrid isn't quite as easy as it sounds. It's easier than MSI packaging, but troublesome apps require deep knowledge to sort out. Also know that certain apps can't be sequenced, such as those requiring device drivers or updates at launch.

Deployment: You can deploy a Softgrid virtual application to a machine as an MSI package overnight via SCCM/SMS if you wish to have it there and cached before the user arrives in the morning.

Licensing: Softgrid's internal licensing module is limited to be honest. I would just manage the licenses by linking the virtual applications to security groups. Then you can control the amount of installed apps by the number of people in the group.
If you're trying to save money by managing concurrent licenses, be aware that very few companies let you manage licenses in that way. If you set it up like that for Microsoft apps, for example, you'll be breaking the EULA.

SVS comparison: this is actually documented in another thread here (and I'm sure elsewhere) so I won't dive into this. Especially considering I've only demoed SVS.
http://itninja.com/question/tools-with-minimal-windows-dependencies?070&mpage=2&#27243

Thinstall is coming along quite nicely. It's not as mature as Softgrid, but I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand.

Citrix is really nothing like any of the other products. It's a different technology completely. In fact Softgrid started as a way of managing Citrix farms... the products compliment each other and don't really compete in my mind.

*edited to make prettier*

Thanks verymuch for you comments turbokitty [:)]

I have read the post you have linked to, but the last post is nearly a year old now and so I thought I'd start this one to see if people had reviewed their thoughts or had any revelations since that time.

From the packaging point of view of SoftGrid, it appeared to me that you could package an application and then skip the sequencing part all together. Am I much mistaken here? I say this because the wizard appeared to let me skip the sequencing part.

I think I might explain again my licensing concerns/requirements as I think our situation is perhaps a little different from a more corporate envionment, just to get some feed back on specific points [:)] We deliver applications with licenses in these ways...

1. Applications delivered accross all of our PC's without restriction (i.e. site licensed).

2. Applications delivered accross all of our PC's and restriceted by concurrent connections (currently from a set of license servers providing redundantancy.)

3. Applications delivered accross all of our PC's but restricted by AD Group

4. Applications delivered accross some of our PC's, the number of which is equal to the number of licenses that have been bought

5. Applications delivered accross some of our PC's the number of which is equal to the number of licenses that have been bought and also restricted by AD Group

6. Applications delivered accross some of our PC's, restricted by AD Group and restricted by concurrent connections via the same licence servers


Obviously, only those apps with concurrent, network style licences (2 & 6) we would license in this way, and we would probably continue to use the licence servers for redundancy and peace of mind for the contract holders as I'm sure the licenses' T&C's probably wouldn't let us dispense licenses in any other way. What I'd really like to know is whether the licensing mechanisims in these suites can deal with the other situations described.

I know this bit is perhaps a little less application virtualisation, and a little bit more configuration and asset management, but how it fits in with the virtualisation solution could have a large bearing on which way we head.

Cheers,

Matt

You're over-thinking the word "sequencing". "Sequencing" is what Softgrid calls "packaging into a virtual environment".

Perhaps you're talking about creating FB1.. which is basically dividing the package into two chunks. The first chunk is delivered as one big piece at first launch, the second chunk is trickled to the user as they need it.

You can skip this step and put the entire package into FB1 or the first chunk.. so the user has the whole application at first launch (slower first launch time, but good for disconnected users like laptops).

As for licensing, Softgrid can handle all the scenarios you mention.

Thanks very much turbokitty [:)]

That's cleared a lot up, it's good to know that all the licensing situations we're like to run into can be covered by SoftGrid [:)] The only remaining question with regards to pakaging/deploying. Should you put the entire package in FB1, is it possible to force a PC to download an application without a user loging in and at a pre-determined time?

The only other thing I'd like some comment on is isolation and the way this varies between solutions. As i said in the original post (and partly doing so as devils advocate), it appears to me that isolation between the solutions is done differently, but with pretty much the same result. I understand that some suites give you more control over exactly how isolated you want applications to be. Is there a vast difference between the isolation that various suites provide and how is this likely to effect your decison on which system to go for? I think we'd prefer a level of isolation that does not make it more difficult to get an application to work as I'm fairly sure our setup does not require isolation to perform any clever tricks other than to allow the virtual abstraction to work.

Cheers,

Matt

I don't know enough about SVS to answer that question. I imagine that info is out there somewhere if you Google.

As for your deployment question, you can deploy a Softgrid sequence to a logged off machine but you need some sort of delivery mechanism other than Softgrid. Softgrid has an "MSI Utility" that converts a softgrid sequence to an MSI so you can deliver it with SCCM or whatever.

The problem is, (quoting M$): "In order for the MSI utility to work, the client must be in disconnected/no-auth mode, and that is a per-machine setting. That means that the MSI Utility cannot be used to preload the cache, followed by active upgrade streaming. Any client that uses the MSI utility will never be able to contact a server. If you want a client to contact a server, it will lose the ability to be serviced by the MSI utility."

Softgrid version 4.5 is supposed to integrate better with SCCM R2, but I haven't seen that in action and I don't know if it allows you to deploy an MSI sequence to a machine in "connected mode".

Thanks again turbokitty [:)]

It's interesting that deploying to a logged off machine doesn't appear to be so straight forward, with SVS you have a commad line utility built into the client that allows you to force it to pick up newly deployed applications (you can deploy the application using deployment solution) when a PC is logged off. The same utility can also switch on/off/reset a virtual applications.

It looks like I'm going to have to seriously consider streaming virtual applications as it appears SoftGrid, at least, is far more flexiblie when virtual apps are delivered in this way. If an app is fully contained in FB1, will it only be streamed once, unless the virtual application is flaged as being updated? I guess if this is the case, a fazed roll out of virtual apps will help reduce the initial strain on the system. All to be tested I guess, if I can convince the budget holders that virtualisation is a viable option! [;)]

Cheers,

Matt

Thanks guys - that's a really useful thread and answers a lot of the questions I was going to post about the various technologies.

Seems to me that looking around at jobs (here in the UK at least) traditional MSI packaging is still the most popular - which is expected since it's the most mature. Then SoftGrid seems to be the next contender... Any searches for SVS or Thinstall don't yield much - if anything.

Traditional MSI packaging is bound to evolve and SoftGrid seems to be the best product to focus on ready for when companies start migrating to virtualisation. Which obviously is already happening....

Cheers,
Rob.

Thanks Rob,

That's a good bit of info [:)]

Cheers,

Matt