App-V Application deployment strategy
Hi all, we are preparing a software certification strategy and process in a substantial environment. Today we are running 32-bit XP, MSI local installs, SCCM, Citrix Terminal Servers, Citrix XenApp Streamed aps for our XenDesktop, lots of remote, mobile users. We want to take the plunge with App-V on Win 7 x64, Citrix XenDesktop, XenApp and still learning soemthing new every day. No production apps.
So many questions .... We are moving from Wise 5 to AdminStudio 10.
Are you using App-V to deliver to Citrix RDS ? Any advice ? We hope to achieve a higher application density and fast provisioning,updating.
Are you using App-V to deliver apps to Windows servers that are not RDS hosts ? We are thinking of leaving traditional server roles with traditional MSI local installs.
Would you use the native App-V sequencer or the one from AdminStudio (integrates with Application Catalog and looks simpler and offers bulk conversion) ?
Anyone had success with bulk conversion ?
We also have App-DNA that promises automated conversion of non-MSIs to App-V. Haven't tried it but sounds tempting .... if it works.
Do you alway package as an MSI - MST and then convert or sequence that ? Or do you go direct to App-V and forget re-packaging MSIs ?
When to use Terminal Server over App-V ? We are aiming to reduce the sprawl of our Citrix estate. Do you ever put an app on both platforms - why ? If you are having success with App-V when would you still use Citrix (maybe for legacy app or if the application needs to be "near" its database for performance perhaps ?).
As we have lots of offline users we aim for the Local Delivery Mode meaning SCCM places the app in the CCM cache. App-V copies to the App-V cache. When the user initiates the application it is streamed to the user's temp folder. AFAIK. So that is app size * 3. Anyone found issue with that ? We are running smallish SSDs.
So many questions .... We are moving from Wise 5 to AdminStudio 10.
Are you using App-V to deliver to Citrix RDS ? Any advice ? We hope to achieve a higher application density and fast provisioning,updating.
Are you using App-V to deliver apps to Windows servers that are not RDS hosts ? We are thinking of leaving traditional server roles with traditional MSI local installs.
Would you use the native App-V sequencer or the one from AdminStudio (integrates with Application Catalog and looks simpler and offers bulk conversion) ?
Anyone had success with bulk conversion ?
We also have App-DNA that promises automated conversion of non-MSIs to App-V. Haven't tried it but sounds tempting .... if it works.
Do you alway package as an MSI - MST and then convert or sequence that ? Or do you go direct to App-V and forget re-packaging MSIs ?
When to use Terminal Server over App-V ? We are aiming to reduce the sprawl of our Citrix estate. Do you ever put an app on both platforms - why ? If you are having success with App-V when would you still use Citrix (maybe for legacy app or if the application needs to be "near" its database for performance perhaps ?).
As we have lots of offline users we aim for the Local Delivery Mode meaning SCCM places the app in the CCM cache. App-V copies to the App-V cache. When the user initiates the application it is streamed to the user's temp folder. AFAIK. So that is app size * 3. Anyone found issue with that ? We are running smallish SSDs.
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Posted by:
nucko
12 years ago
App-v and Xennapp - Yes, its the most common scenario used. Often the only big question is if there are to be a clean basebuild (no office, plugins) and thereby making it more dynamic or to have a more fully loaded basebuild (less dynamic)
App-V to Windows Servers - no, and it doesn't really fit the licensing schema. You will have to contact Microsoft to ensure you are in compliance.
Regarding third-party sequencer, see this statement;
http://social.technet.microsoft.com/wiki/contents/articles/support-for-applications-virtualized-with-a-3rd-party-sequencer-in-a-microsoft-app-v-environment.aspx
Bulk-conversion usually gives a successrate of 60% or lower
Most shops either do a MSI / MST or an app-v package - not both.
See this regarding Xen / RDS and App-V
http://blog.stealthpuppy.com/deployment/app-v-faq-19-does-app-v-replace-citrix-xenapp-or-remote-desktop-services/
Regarding SCCM / App-V
The three-copies scenario would only happen during a differential streaming - ergo you updated a package.
You could tweak it and depend on your DPs and avoiding the additional disk overhead - but this depends on how it fits your scenario
App-V to Windows Servers - no, and it doesn't really fit the licensing schema. You will have to contact Microsoft to ensure you are in compliance.
Regarding third-party sequencer, see this statement;
http://social.technet.microsoft.com/wiki/contents/articles/support-for-applications-virtualized-with-a-3rd-party-sequencer-in-a-microsoft-app-v-environment.aspx
Bulk-conversion usually gives a successrate of 60% or lower
Most shops either do a MSI / MST or an app-v package - not both.
See this regarding Xen / RDS and App-V
http://blog.stealthpuppy.com/deployment/app-v-faq-19-does-app-v-replace-citrix-xenapp-or-remote-desktop-services/
Regarding SCCM / App-V
The three-copies scenario would only happen during a differential streaming - ergo you updated a package.
You could tweak it and depend on your DPs and avoiding the additional disk overhead - but this depends on how it fits your scenario
Posted by:
bcook
12 years ago
I work for ChangeBase and we write a tool called AOK which is very relevant to this thread. Here are some points which should be of interest:
If this is of interest then please feel free to drop me a mail on ben.cook@changebase.com.
We’d be happy to run 10 MSIs through VReady-It for batch conversion to App-V for no charge. This way you can see for yourself what sort of results you can expect. I’d be happy to post the results here if you are?
- If you are moving to AdminStudio 10 then you’ll get a ‘lite’ version of AOK (this is branded “AdminStudio Application Compatibility Packâ€Â). This allows you to individually test your apps for compatibility against Windows 7, 64 bit, and Server 2008. It includes automated fixing for many of the compatibility issues found.
- The full AOK product allows you to batch test multiple applications for compatibility with the above, plus there are optional addons such as 'Virtualise-It' which test compatibility with technologies such as App-V. Again this includes automated fixing for many of the issues.
- With the full product there’s an addon module called VReady-It which allows you to batch convert MSIs into App-V format. The success rate is very dependent on what MSIs you convert. We’re typically seeing rates of around 70-80% assuming your MSIs will install silently.
If this is of interest then please feel free to drop me a mail on ben.cook@changebase.com.
We’d be happy to run 10 MSIs through VReady-It for batch conversion to App-V for no charge. This way you can see for yourself what sort of results you can expect. I’d be happy to post the results here if you are?
Posted by:
ericserno
12 years ago
Future_machine,
I work for App-DNA, so get to interact with a lot of customers doing projects and App-V conversions. To answer a few of your questions.
- Virtualization on Citrix is very common, whether it's App-V (probably the most common) or even Citrix Profiles, for all of those reasons you mentioned.
- You could run into issues with apps that are heavy on drivers or services on a server environment, but there could be benefit from virtualizing the applications that take to it well.
- App-DNA / AppTitude does conversion by leverging the native Microsoft Sequencer, specifically the command line options in conjunction with VM technology to make sure it happening in a clean state. The idea is know which ones will be successful first, or if they have issues, how to fix them and then proceed forward. You just bulk sequence the ones that can be.
- MSI standardization can possibly help "future-proof" your applications and is good in case of fall back to installed media instead of virtual, but is not necessary for going to App-V (or for AppTitude) and would add extra steps and time. It would depend on what kind of organization you are (high availability, etc.) and what kind of apps you currently have.
Contact us if you have questions on getting up and running with you current AppTitude product to use for App-V
Eric
eric.serno@app-dna.com
I work for App-DNA, so get to interact with a lot of customers doing projects and App-V conversions. To answer a few of your questions.
- Virtualization on Citrix is very common, whether it's App-V (probably the most common) or even Citrix Profiles, for all of those reasons you mentioned.
- You could run into issues with apps that are heavy on drivers or services on a server environment, but there could be benefit from virtualizing the applications that take to it well.
- App-DNA / AppTitude does conversion by leverging the native Microsoft Sequencer, specifically the command line options in conjunction with VM technology to make sure it happening in a clean state. The idea is know which ones will be successful first, or if they have issues, how to fix them and then proceed forward. You just bulk sequence the ones that can be.
- MSI standardization can possibly help "future-proof" your applications and is good in case of fall back to installed media instead of virtual, but is not necessary for going to App-V (or for AppTitude) and would add extra steps and time. It would depend on what kind of organization you are (high availability, etc.) and what kind of apps you currently have.
Contact us if you have questions on getting up and running with you current AppTitude product to use for App-V
Eric
eric.serno@app-dna.com
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